Semple Woods new development

Zo123
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Zo123 » 03 Apr 2019, 17:52

Social housing ghetto is a bit extreme. There are 258 properties being built there so taking 40 that have gone to the private landlord and let's assume another 26 for social housing that's still 192 for private purchase.

I'd predict they won't have any trouble selling these as conversely if these cuckoo funds become more and more prevalent then first time buyers will become more and more panicking to secure good quality homes. What a country.

Be interesting to see the demand this weekend for the open days.

Seamus
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Seamus » 03 Apr 2019, 20:16

I don't know where you are getting your figures from. The estate agents marketing the estate have the number of houses at 134 (https://dmpc.ie/new-homes/semple-woods/) and the map on the official website for the development shows the same amount (https://glenveagh.ie/development/glenve ... ple-woods/). With 10% going to social housing (14 houses) and 40 sold to a property fund, that gives a total of 54 houses or just over 40% of the total houses going to the rental sector, before you even take any buy to lets into account. That is a very high proportion by any metric.

Gjjt
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Gjjt » 03 Apr 2019, 20:31

my issue is not with the amount of social housing at all...in fact i think that people in social housing are at least going to stick around for a long time and become a part of the community.
im worried about tenants, private tenants who come and go after their years lease is up. Im one of them right now! we've moved so many times i can't even remember . I really really don't want to live in an estate that has such a high volume of rental properties.
Tenants tend to not commit to an area when they're renting ..its such a transient thing.
We're in Raheny at the moment. Unfortunately way out of our price range :(

Gjjt
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Gjjt » 03 Apr 2019, 20:32

I think the prevous poster was referring to the next stage of building...which will be apartments and a creche. Im open to correction.

Zo123
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Zo123 » 03 Apr 2019, 21:32

Seamus wrote:
03 Apr 2019, 20:16
I don't know where you are getting your figures from. The estate agents marketing the estate have the number of houses at 134 (https://dmpc.ie/new-homes/semple-woods/) and the map on the official website for the development shows the same amount (https://glenveagh.ie/development/glenve ... ple-woods/). With 10% going to social housing (14 houses) and 40 sold to a property fund, that gives a total of 54 houses or just over 40% of the total houses going to the rental sector, before you even take any buy to lets into account. That is a very high proportion by any metric.
You're only looking at the first phase. There are 196 houses and 62 apartments being built in total over 2-3 phases. So it's a lot less than the 40% you quote.

I can certainly understand peoples apprehensions at these cuckoo funds buying up estates though. Going by recent media reports it looks like becoming a common occurrence.

When does social housing normally get allocated in new developments does anyone know? From the beginning or at the end? I know from speaking to the developers in Beresford a few months ago that they are only looking at that now in their final phase.

Seamus
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Seamus » 03 Apr 2019, 22:07

Yes it is phase one only. But the 40 houses being sold are from phase one so the figure of 40% is correct.

Fr Jack
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Fr Jack » 04 Apr 2019, 12:22

I heard the 10% social housing in that development is not going to be allocated at all because Glenveagh have amended their application claiming they will be able to sell all the properties. I heard this a few months back so obviously it was in the pipeline a long time ago to sell to iRes. I'm sure they will buy a big chunk of the second phase too. Hence the speed of building on that site.

Zo123
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Zo123 » 04 Apr 2019, 15:14

Fr Jack wrote:
04 Apr 2019, 12:22
I heard the 10% social housing in that development is not going to be allocated at all because Glenveagh have amended their application claiming they will be able to sell all the properties. I heard this a few months back so obviously it was in the pipeline a long time ago to sell to iRes. I'm sure they will buy a big chunk of the second phase too. Hence the speed of building on that site.
That is true about the next phase, I suppose anything could happen sales wise.
I'm going to ask these questions at the open day this Saturday anyway. There will surely be some effort to appease any further negative publicity.

Interested
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Interested » 05 Apr 2019, 11:03

Let’s have a recap of Irish planning laws, housing strategies, policies, procedures and guidelines, and then debate government and Fingal County Council's performances with respect to the Donabate Local Area Plan. A quick view on the net and I found the following information.

Housing Strategy:
Social and Affordable housing (10 %) will be delivered in accordance with the provisions of the Housing Strategy and will be provided jointly by the Council, private developers and Approved Housing Bodies across the LAP lands.
“The changes will ensure that 10% of scheme housing is reserved for purchase and/or lease arrangements for social housing purposes by local authorities and approved housing bodies. It is estimated that the changes proposed could yield approximately 1,500 homes for social purposes per annum on the basis of 25,000 homes being completed annually and taking account of issues such as one-off or small housing developments that are not subject to Part V.”


Donabate Local Area Plan 2016 – 2022
Section 8.3.5 of DLAP Social & Affordable Housing: Social and Affordable housing will be delivered in accordance with the provisions of the Housing Strategy and will be provided jointly by the Council, private developers and Approved Housing Bodies across the LAP lands. In order to promote and facilitate social integration, social and affordable housing should be integrated appropriately into the overall development of the lands so as to ensure there is no concentration of social housing in any one specific area or zone.

Balymastone
http://www.fingalcoco.ie/project-talamh/ballymastone/
Balymastomne - information on the progress of the project will be communicated to Councillors and to the Donabate Liaison Committee. This webpage will also be updated with any new information on the progress of the project.


Part V of PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT ACT 2000 REVISED
Previously, developers were required to reserve up to 20% of land zoned for residential use or residential and other uses, for social and affordable housing. Under the Urban Regeneration and Housing Act 2015, the social housing requirement to be met by developers has been reduced to 10% and the affordable housing element has been removed.

The options available to a developer, as to how they comply with the social housing obligations have also been amended. The option of providing a cash payment in lieu of social housing has been removed, as has the option of transferring undeveloped land, other than on the planning permission site. Developers have the option of transferring completed units on land which is not subject of the planning application. The option of leasing units between the developer and the Council is also available or a combination of the aforementioned options.

National Planning Framework Ireland 2040
Social Housing:
The provision by Government of housing supports for those unable to provide for accommodation from within their own resources is a key social policy and it affects a significant proportion of the population. Actions taken by public bodies in relation to social housing can have a considerable impact on the overall housing market and, equally, fiscal or regulatory measures in relation to the housing market can have an effect on the availability of social housing. Adding more properties to areas that are already dense with social housing, or to areas that are unable to support further population, can create serious problems within communities. Diverse neighbourhoods with a balance of public and private housing create the healthiest communities.

Rebuilding Ireland: Pillar Two - Accelerate Social Housing
Over the period of the plan, 50,000 homes will be delivered under the various social housing programmes, together with an expansion of the Housing Assistance Payment scheme nationwide.
Over the period of the plan, 50,000 homes will be delivered under the various social housing programmes, together with an expansion of the Housing Assistance Payment scheme nationwide.
This delivery will be achieved through collaboration between local authorities, Approved Housing Bodies (AHBs), the National Treasury Management Agency (NTMA) and the private sector. It will involve new innovative approaches such as 1,500 rapid build homes, 1,600 homes acquired by the Housing Agency through a dedicated new fund and a new vehicle which the NTMA will work with the private sector to establish to provide such housing off the Government balance sheet and mixed developments on State lands.
1. 33500 exclusively houses built as social housing
2. 6,500 will be acquired by local authorities and Approved housing Bodies from the market or the housing agency.
3. 10,000 will be leased by local housing authorities and Approved housing Bodies

Useful links:
https://consult.fingal.ie/system/files/ ... rategy.pdf
https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/housing
http://fingal.ie/media/Donabate_LAP_Tex ... _Part4.pdf
https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/defaul ... 141126.pdf
https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/defaul ... n_2017.pdf
http://revisedacts.lawreform.ie/eli/200 ... tions=true
http://fingal.ie/media/Adopted_Donabate ... p_2016.pdf

manor
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by manor » 05 Apr 2019, 21:31

You'd have to imagine the apartments could well be sold directly to a REIT also rather than individually.

Gjjt
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Gjjt » 17 Apr 2019, 22:15

Just to let anyone know, who has bought a property in Semple Woods, that there is a private Facebook group if they would like to join,

Search: Semple Woods Residents

:)

aoifey
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Minister thinks Cuckoo Funds are good for the market

Post by aoifey » 18 Apr 2019, 09:07

Interesting article today where it is reported that Minister Donohoe has defended the activities of 'cuckoo funds' buying up residential properties in blocks.

https://www.independent.ie/business/per ... 27492.html

Just remember, these huge corporations are buying houses/apartments in blocks because of the lucrative rental market. They aren't doing this for short term gain. Clearly they know/or are aiding the fact that rents will be high and get higher for years to come.

The other side to this is that they are stopping first time buyers from entering the market thus they will have to continue to rent, keeping rents high of course.

And our Minister supports them.

And people question the existence of groups such as the Donabate Portrane Community Council and SPDD, and people question the reasoning behind the call for a moratorium on future large developments in Donabate. Well there's one good reason right there.

Just remember when it comes to local elections who supported the call for a moratorium and who didn't. And then ask yourself why.

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Ken
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Ken » 18 Apr 2019, 09:24

The flip side of this is whether large developments could be built in the first place without these funds buying some of the houses? There is also the fact that first time buyers are struggling to get finance and can't buy the houses so will increase the demand for rental properties.

There will be higher demand rental properties in the future and some would see these funds as providing higher quality properties in the future and also be more stable landlords than the ad-hoc more casual landlords we have at the moment.

Not saying I disagree with all your points Aoifey. Just another perspective.
Regards,

Ken.

Derek
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Derek » 18 Apr 2019, 10:03

Ken wrote:
18 Apr 2019, 09:24
There is also the fact that first time buyers are struggling to get finance and can't buy the houses so will increase the demand for rental properties.
But Ken, the housing agencies could negotiate a hefty discount on the purchase price in a market where builders are saying they aren't making money. It's laughable. Surely if first time buyers were buying at the same prices as the REIT's are, then affordability would be easier for them.

Instead FTB properties are being gobbled up before going to market, compounding the difficulties FTB'ers and renters are facing.

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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Ken » 18 Apr 2019, 11:21

I wonder what sort of discount they are getting? I can't see buildiers giving away much. The only savings from the builder's side would possibly be legal fees and estate agent fees.
Regards,

Ken.

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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by diggerbarnes » 18 Apr 2019, 12:14

Actually it is working the opposite way. They are paying above the asking prices. They can afford to do this given the future revenues from renting them out. It cuts out individuals looking to buy homes. It's good for them. Good for developers. And good for the government - not exposing our banks to massive mortgage debt again and keeps the ball rolling with house building. Not a thought spared though for people looking to buy or rent homes. This forced swing towards renting is not a natural choice. What happens when these life-time renters want to retire and have no income to pay rents? Look at what has happened in Berlin for the answer.

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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Derek » 18 Apr 2019, 12:59

diggerbarnes wrote:
18 Apr 2019, 12:14
Look at what has happened in Berlin for the answer.
100% correct. People say renting is what they do on the continent, and the truth is they have no choice but to do so thanks to homes being snapped up by commercial landlords.

And here, our government is standing Idly by while home ownership is being commodified by these vultures to our long term detriment.

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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Derek » 18 Apr 2019, 13:01

Ken wrote:
18 Apr 2019, 11:21
I wonder what sort of discount they are getting? I can't see buildiers giving away much. The only savings from the builder's side would possibly be legal fees and estate agent fees.
If they're buying on the scale these guys are, they're not shelling out at the same rate your average Joe is paying, that's for sure.

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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by diggerbarnes » 18 Apr 2019, 13:06

Derek wrote:
18 Apr 2019, 13:01
Ken wrote:
18 Apr 2019, 11:21
I wonder what sort of discount they are getting? I can't see buildiers giving away much. The only savings from the builder's side would possibly be legal fees and estate agent fees.
If they're buying on the scale these guys are, they're not shelling out at the same rate your average Joe is paying, that's for sure.
Actually Derek they are prepared to pay over the top and are doing so to secure quick deals. It's chump change to them.

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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Ken » 18 Apr 2019, 14:07

The laws of supply and demand will still apply to the rental market. More properties available could lead to lower rents. A large part of the problem today is a lcak of properties.
Regards,

Ken.

aoifey
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by aoifey » 18 Apr 2019, 15:18

Ken wrote:
18 Apr 2019, 14:07
The laws of supply and demand will still apply to the rental market. More properties available could lead to lower rents. A large part of the problem today is a lcak of properties.
Ken, these cuckoo fund companies arent buying up swathes of property so that their income will reduce in a years time. Rents will not decrease because of them. These companies have done their homework and know the rents will increase. They arent in this so that their revenue will drop!

They also receive significant tax incentives in Ireland.

Zo123
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Zo123 » 19 Apr 2019, 20:04

Gjjt wrote:
17 Apr 2019, 22:15
Just to let anyone know, who has bought a property in Semple Woods, that there is a private Facebook group if they would like to join,

Search: Semple Woods Residents

:)

Great work thanks! 👍

Quello Serio
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by Quello Serio » 01 May 2019, 10:34

I believe the developer has applied to ABP to be allowed to increase the number of 'units' in Semple Woods from 251 to 328. (Fewer houses, more apartments).

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachm ... 1556622011

I won't be surprised when these are sold to a cuckoo fund.

aoifey
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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by aoifey » 01 May 2019, 11:31

Quello Serio wrote:
01 May 2019, 10:34
I believe the developer has applied to ABP to be allowed to increase the number of 'units' in Semple Woods from 251 to 328. (Fewer houses, more apartments).

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachm ... 1556622011

I won't be surprised when these are sold to a cuckoo fund.
you sort of have to just laugh at this stage. what other country in the developed world would allow a towns population to double with little or no infrastructure, public transport, roads etc to support it. Can you name another town in Ireland with a population of 10,000 that has one road in and one road out, let alone when we double to 20,000 with one road in and one road out.

what other country would give planning permission to large developments on the basis that "we need housing" and then to allow said developments to be sold in bulk to investment companies to ensure rents are kept inflated? Is there no cop on amongst the decision makers in this country?

what other country would allow a contractor to breach the terms of a roads contract and cause 45 minute tailbacks into and out of donabate, for them then to be told they were very naughty and not to do it again. And when they do it again, to be told they were very naughty and not to do it again, etc etc etc. Zero consequences.

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Re: Semple Woods new development

Post by albert » 01 May 2019, 15:17

aoifey wrote:
01 May 2019, 11:31
Is there no cop on amongst the decision makers in this country?
Nope. There is not.

I had heard on boards.ie that quite a lot of the first release of Semple Woods had taken deposits which I though was a positive sign for the development...

Any word on when phase two will be released?

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